| from: | AV | ||
| to: | "cj@thiscrazytrain.com" | ||
| date: | Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 8:48 AM | ||
| subject: | Niagara GO petition |
Hey CJ,
Are you aware of this petition?
http://www.getniagaragoing.ca/
Thought maybe some of your readers would want to sign it.
Is there enough people traffic to warrant such a thing? It is like all day, two way travel to Kitchener. Is it worth it and who is going to pay for it.
ReplyDeleteIf it is for 5 people, than no. But if they can reasonably fill 1 train every 2 hours or so, then yes, as long as they run the one train every few hours.
Remember, the Province is broker than broke. I am getting more than a little tired of paying for pet-projects and numerous boondoggles that if something is "nice to have" but unaffordable, then we do not have it. Same as with your household budgets.
The real question is, will the ridership numbers be high enough to support such service? My answer is no because the VIA trains, GO buses, Greyhound and Coach Canada service to Niagara Falls isn't booked solid.
ReplyDeleteAlso, doesn't VIA rail, Greyhound, and Coach Canada have service to Niagara Falls with plenty of seating room.
Don't forget Safeway Tours which charges $7 each way from Niagara Fallsview casino to various destinations in the GTA with their coach service.
I wonder if those Niagara commuters would mind paying extra for their service because it's a sure-fire money loser even compared to the current loss subsidized by our Libs.
ReplyDeleteIf they can't fill a 6 car train then it's not worth it.
BTW those tracks owned by VIA from Hamilton to NF are terrible and in major need of repair. It's like riding a bucking bronco and limits the speed of the train. More traffic means more wear, more accommodating freight traffic and more usage of the CN signal system.
I think we need a cost analysis as was done with Barrie and the Georgetown line before expanding.
This sounds like a money sinkhole (and I'm not blaming NF for their wants of course).
I do however make use of the summertime trains to visit there.
I believe GO did a study on it
DeleteBut decided that it wouldn't be feasible to go past St. Catherine's as you would need a new bridge over the welland canal, to the tune of several hundred million dollars.
I'm all for making it easier to get to and from the Niagara area but not if it's going to be a perpetual money pit.
ReplyDeleteBut as with anything related to transit, it will be years before a decision is made.
I do agree there probably wont be enough ridership for Niagara - Union because there simply aren't enough big commuter towns/cities along the way to justify the new trains. Although I do think it is worth while to bring more service to the Kitchener line because of the growth of towns/cities along the line. Oh well... we gotta take this one step at a time :P
ReplyDeleteAs someone who commutes to Grimsby regularly I can tell you that there is indeed the ridership for this. Right now From Burlington GO is running buses going to Stoney Creek, Grimsby, St.Catherines, and Niagara Falls.
ReplyDeleteSince that bus service has come in, the ridership has actually increased to the point that when you're arrive at Burlington now, the service has been divideed into two buses. Are now two buses, one express to to St.Catherine's and Niagara, and another bus making all four stops.
There used to be a Via Rail train that would come in from St.Catherines in the morning, and then went back the same milk run in the evening. But Via has since switched the times for that, and you can no longer get into Toronto on the Via train. Coach Canada buses in the morning, which do run hourly are always rammed, and there are people that are having to stand for an hour and a half.
As I said as someone who regularly rides it, I do see the ridership there, and positive trends take place as well as a result of it. Many residents of Grimsby will leave their car in the Carpool lot to take the bus into Burlington. Actually Casablanca is in consideration for being one of the train stops which would make total sense.
The bus/train combination commuting time from Courtice to Union is about an hour and a half. I think if they can do this they should, especially since the Gardiner doesn't have much time left, think of the nightmare for people coming into the city once that happens. This is just one person's opinion, but I think it is an overall good thing
VIA used to run a well-used service from Niagara in the morning and back in the evening, aimed squarely at commuters. However, the federal govt cut funding to VIA two years ago, and the servcie was lost.
ReplyDeleteAs for people saying volumes on existing bus services are inffucient to justify a train service: a train would be quicker than the bus, so would attract more riders.
The demand levels would probably be more suited to VIA's single-deck four-car trains than GO's double-deck 10/12-care trains.
@George: GO has fare-by-distance, so yes, they would pay extra. Also, both roads and transit are subsidised by the taxpayer - bti I don't see you moaning about how all those care users' commutes are subsidised.
Tom, stick to the subject at hand which is a GO service, not roads, cars, other transit or anything else.
ReplyDeleteIf the cost benefit analysis is OK, then they should consider limited service and review it periodically to see how the service is doing as they do with all lines.
By extra I meant that they pay porportionally more if the ridership isn't enough to make sure the line doesn't lose more than is acceptable.
I actually hope they do find it worthwhile to open a regular limited 6 or 8 car service. 10 or 12 cars won't happen IMO.
What you consider moaning is your own iterpretation of my remarks. Stop stating it as fact please.
For those that think that because the VIA and Greyhound trains/buses are not booked solid, that there is no need for a niagara train - you need to look closer at the times that these trains are available. Via removed the rush hour train from Toronto to Niagara. The times that the trains and/or buses get you in are not justifiable, so it's easier to commute to the Burlington Go Station and take the train from there. If you're coming from St. Catharines that's 60km. From Niagara Falls/On-the0Lake, that is 80-100km.
ReplyDeleteThere is a case to extend the train service to St. Catharines. There are a lot of riders from Vineland, St. Catharines, Grimsby, Stoney Creek, and even Brantford (given that Via also altered their morning train therefore they have to drive in to Aldershot in the mornings in order to catch the Via Train in the evening back to Aldershot to get their cars).
There will be significant issues with trying to get all-day train service past the Welland Canal, but if it can go to St. Catharines, the buses can care for the rest.